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Topic Review (Newest First)
12-22-2007 06:14 PM
Unregistered
One of two

I want to ask you.Between Razer Copperhead and Logitech G5 , which one is the better mouse for gaming and Adobe Photoshop?
11-30-2005 10:34 PM
Buck-O Spot on man!!

Im glad your likeing the G5, and found the extra info valuable.

Ill be waitng to hear your more in depth review of the G5.


P.S. - You know, it wouldent hurt to register.
11-30-2005 05:52 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck-O
I will say this about that.


if you ahte the 510...you will hate the G5.

The scroll wheel is harder to middle click on the G5 becuase it wants to "slip" to the side thanks to the side scroll. It takes a few days to get used to it unfortunately.

So beings that the middle mouse/scroll click was your biggest pet peve, stay away from teh G5.


Unfortuantely, the mouse you describe, i think its made of unobtanium.


And, off the top of my head, i cant think of any gaming mice that are worth beans that come close to teh features you want/need as a gamer. But ill be thinking.
I decided to pick up the G5 anyway since the lack of weight to the Copperhead was really beginning to frustrate me. With a mouse that light and sensitive, the 'mouse cord drag' becomes quite noticable, as well as the tiny amout of directional force applied by clicking buttons. A maxed out G5 does not suffer from these problems.

I have to say, it is superior to the Copperhead in every way I care about. While the middle button is still a bit inaccurate, the fact that the scroll tilt effectively adds 2 very good buttons more than makes up for it. (After one day of use, I seem to left scroll + middle click about 15-20% of the time when trying to middle click under no pressure, and much more often when mousing frantically.)

I will post my full thoughts on these two mice in a day or two. But my initital take is similar to yours: The G5 is a nice step forward from the 510, and is undeniably superior to the Copperhead. While Logitech did make some mistakes, they are definatley moving in the right direction and I have a lot of hope for their next gaming mouse.
11-29-2005 12:41 AM
Buck-O I will say this about that.


if you ahte the 510...you will hate the G5.

The scroll wheel is harder to middle click on the G5 becuase it wants to "slip" to the side thanks to the side scroll. It takes a few days to get used to it unfortunately.

So beings that the middle mouse/scroll click was your biggest pet peve, stay away from teh G5.


Unfortuantely, the mouse you describe, i think its made of unobtanium.


And, off the top of my head, i cant think of any gaming mice that are worth beans that come close to teh features you want/need as a gamer. But ill be thinking.
11-28-2005 10:27 PM
Unregistered
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck-O
I think the Razer would be best suited for lefties. Thanks to its semetrical design. It offers left hand gamers an opportunity to have a quality high DPI fragging mouse. And thats about where my recemendations of the Razor end.

For starters, Im really not a fan of semetrical mice. I just dont find them confortable over long gaming sesions. And ive felt that way since my first Logitech Mouseman 3-Button mouse back in the Dawango Doom II days. And i like the way the 5x series case from Logitech fills my hand without lifting my hand off the mousing surface to do so. ALong the same line, as a guy with large hands, the copperhead feels small and to low profile in my hand, and really makes my wrist hurt useing it for a long gaming sesion. Plus ive never been a fan of Razors hyper sensitive buttons. They just dont do it for me. I like a good authoritative click. Helps remove accidental railgun firings in the heat of battle.
Yep, I have been 'test driving' this mouse and the symmetrical nature is a HUGE, HUGE drawback. Although it is reasonably comfortable (esp since I'm used to using a symmetrical mouse at work), it is crap compared to a true righty mouse. Since about half of the lefties I know mouse right handed, I don't know why companies even bother with symmetrical mice. (If you're a righty, try mousing lefty for a night, it's honestly not that hard if you reverse the buttons and once you get used to the fact that your 'skew factor' is reversed. Do it for a week and it will be second nature. I broke my right collarbone a few years ago and had to mouse lefty, after a couple days I didn't even notice anymore)

Your comment really hits home because my current mouse *IS* in fact the original Mouseman Wheel that I pulled out of my junk drawer after breaking my last optical in a fit of rage. When I hooked it up I was friggen AMAZED at how good that old mouse felt (especially the PERFECT side button) and have been using it for months as even though it is a mechanical mouse. I have yet to see a mouse as well designed and can't fathom why all the new mice are so crap compared to this old design. I've bought and returned 3-4 mice since I switched to the mouseman but now I *really* need a new one as my wheel has finally lost 100% of its 'click' and is completely smooth scrolling like the idiotic MS mice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck-O
The other thing i dont like about the razer is the lack of weight. Some people prefer this, i on the other hand prefer a heavier weighted mouse. The G5 offers the best of both worlds with its removable weight tray (also known as the battery slot on the wireless version) with customizable weighting. I can then weight the mouse so that its flickable to my tastes. A GREAT feature that im slightly disappointed no one has implimented sooner.
Hmm, I also prefer a heavier mouse, but don't find it that big a deal. But this G5 is intriguing me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck-O
Also, i can do without the corny LED lighting of the razor. Yeah, the G5 has some base lights in the weight tray, and the little LED display up top, but neither of them are any mroe distracting then the rear light on an MS Explorer mouse, or the LED underlighting of typical optical mice. Personally I find the movement of the blue light in my lower right peripherial vision to be distracting at best, and downright nausiating in a quick multiplayer game of Q4 where is straking all over my vision, and drawing my eyes tword it (another reason why i hate VW dash boards with their blue back lighting AMBER FOOS!)
Yeah, the light isn't doing anything, but with a laser you have to do something to up the 'cool' factor since you don't get the wow of a visible optical beam. The 'always on' thing had me worried for a bit since my desk is next to my bed but then I realized, "Oh, non-visible laser spectrum on the tracker, smoove!" I have the 'red' mouse and it's not bad at night. My LED alarm clock is much brighter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck-O
Plus, i may be a little biased tword the G5 becuase im a former MX510 user. And i really like the design of that mouse. ANd im glad that Logitech took the time to improve the design to make it better.

Little things like removing the "forward" navigation button on the thumb well, i never really used it. But i discovered alot of games wouldent map to it natively. So its no loss to me. THey also removed the application button from teh top of the mouse, and added side scrolling to the mouse wheel. Although one thing i do really miss are the "cruise" buttons for and aft of the scroll wheel. Althogh they couldent be used in gaming...so i suppose the loss isnt terribly great for a hardcore gamer, but i liked to use them when browsing.
Ok, I am looking for a new mouse (still!) and the G5 is intriguing, but I tried the 510 and have to say I HATED it. It was too small, the smallish side buttons were hard to hit, the mousewheel was crap to use as a button (tho its scrolling was *by far* the best I have ever used in terms of accuracy). I never used the tiny top buttons as they were too small for me and not easy to hit for my hand position.

So here's what I'm looking for, if anybody has any suggestions please give them:

A large, right handed design. At the very least, main buttons that can be clicked even if you let the tips of your fingers hang over the front edge of the mouse (ie: the MX 1000 and 510 are horrid in this regard since the main buttons are recessed so you cant click by pushing down on the front edge).

A good, clicky, scroll wheel that is close to the front of the mouse, and it easy to use as a button without being super careful about accidently scrolling. The 510 scroll wheel was great for accuracy (need 3 clicks to get to the weapon / quickbar / whatever you need to get to? no problem, you'll be able to achieve the right number of clicks with extreme quickness and 99% accuracy after just a day or two of using the mouse). However, the 510 scroll wheel was not easy for me to reach, and was recessed too much to use as a button effectively. Side scrolling would be a large bonus IF everything else is good. Two more easy to hit buttons is never a bad thing.

Good side buttons on the thumb side. My PERFECT design (remember, this is a large, righty mouse) would have 3 buttons on the thumb side, stacked VERTICALLY. The modern 2 button horizontal layout boggles my mind as the thumb naturally moves in the opposite direction and I'd much rather simply move my thumb a tiny bit up or down and press with whatever part of my thumb is comfortable for me than have to either bend my thumb or do a non intuitive 'back click' determine which button I want. I 'hold' the mouse with the base of my hand so accidently clicking a thumb button while mousing isn't a problem and in my pefect design my thumb would very lighly rest on the middle button and allow me to easily hit that button or the upper / lower ones.

(I could go on about this for hours, but on a quick note, another modern thing that I very much dislike is the 4 button diamond layout for gamepad buttons. The 6 button layout, while separating the buttons into 3 'primary' and 3 'secondary' buttons in a way, is simply superior as one's thumb naturally moves along the three buttons in a row much more easily than moving around a diamond. But the console wars ended up going for 'cool looking' controllers in order to market the units and now the PC gamepads have gone along with the diamond design. With the XBox controller our fate was sealed and it's hilarious because MS went with the diamond but at the same time acknoledged the superiority of the 6 button layout by including the black / white buttons. But they couldn't line up these buttons perfectly with the others beacuse that would make it TOO obvious that the 3x2 layout is better and the controller was designed for looks so they had to misalign the B/W and make them tiny and pretend that they were like teritary bonus buttons even though every game proceeded to use them for important functions. Dammit, I could punch somebody in the face right now!)

A right side button is a bonus. But it has to be in the right spot and quite large in order to accomidate the less accurate nature of using one's pinky / ring fingers and the fact that the placement of said fingers is probably what varies the most among different people. If the button is in a place where I can hit it without changing how I hold the mouse I certainly will use it for something non essential... and eventually learn to hit it well enough to upgrade what I bind it to.. and eventually want a second button over there. But it HAS to be in the right place! The Copperhead's 2 right side buttons are absolutely useless to me due to the way I hold the mouse. For me, a button shaped / positioned like the orginal MM Wheel side button would be perfect although it should take a lot less pressure to click. (If you haven't used the orginal MMW, its side button is along the bottom edge of the mouse about 2/5 of the way from the front of the mouse, and is about 1.5 inches long and half an inch high. It is truly the greatest side button of all time)

And umm... good mousing precision, obviously.

I have been looking for a new mouse for almost A YEAR now, and my current (8 year old!) mouse is now unusable due to wear and tear, so please, suggestions are welcome!
11-05-2005 01:29 AM
Buck-O ROFL @ "wow my eyes hurt"


:lol:


One thing i forgot to mention too, is that i like the software with the G5 better then Razers software.

I dont know if its becuase of the years of useing Logitechs software that ive grown accustomed to their layout. But i just felt it was easier to use.
11-04-2005 11:32 PM
madstork91
^^^ wow my eyes hurt

Well said man... I think you hit most of what I want/look for in a mouse.
11-04-2005 11:02 PM
Buck-O Now for my two cents... *looks over my shoulder for Jen* (no hard feel'ns hon, just giving you a hard time)

First, let me say, the Copperhead is a GREAT mouse, excelent tracking, quick responce, and all in all a quality made product.

But, with all that in mind...the G5 is the mouse for me.

I think the Razer would be best suited for lefties. Thanks to its semetrical design. It offers left hand gamers an opportunity to have a quality high DPI fragging mouse. And thats about where my recemendations of the Razor end.

For starters, Im really not a fan of semetrical mice. I just dont find them confortable over long gaming sesions. And ive felt that way since my first Logitech Mouseman 3-Button mouse back in the Dawango Doom II days. And i like the way the 5x series case from Logitech fills my hand without lifting my hand off the mousing surface to do so. ALong the same line, as a guy with large hands, the copperhead feels small and to low profile in my hand, and really makes my wrist hurt useing it for a long gaming sesion. Plus ive never been a fan of Razors hyper sensitive buttons. They just dont do it for me. I like a good authoritative click. Helps remove accidental railgun firings in the heat of battle.

The other thing i dont like about the razer is the lack of weight. Some people prefer this, i on the other hand prefer a heavier weighted mouse. The G5 offers the best of both worlds with its removable weight tray (also known as the battery slot on the wireless version) with customizable weighting. I can then weight the mouse so that its flickable to my tastes. A GREAT feature that im slightly disappointed no one has implimented sooner.

Also, i can do without the corny LED lighting of the razor. Yeah, the G5 has some base lights in the weight tray, and the little LED display up top, but neither of them are any mroe distracting then the rear light on an MS Explorer mouse, or the LED underlighting of typical optical mice. Personally I find the movement of the blue light in my lower right peripherial vision to be distracting at best, and downright nausiating in a quick multiplayer game of Q4 where is straking all over my vision, and drawing my eyes tword it (another reason why i hate VW dash boards with their blue back lighting AMBER FOOS!)

Plus, i may be a little biased tword the G5 becuase im a former MX510 user. And i really like the design of that mouse. ANd im glad that Logitech took the time to improve the design to make it better.
Little things like removing the "forward" navigation button on the thumb well, i never really used it. But i discovered alot of games wouldent map to it natively. So its no loss to me. THey also removed the application button from teh top of the mouse, and added side scrolling to the mouse wheel. Although one thing i do really miss are the "cruise" buttons for and aft of the scroll wheel. Althogh they couldent be used in gaming...so i suppose the loss isnt terribly great for a hardcore gamer, but i liked to use them when browsing.

They also made some improvments to the foot pads. The 510/518 had a "flaw" (in my oppinion) where there where not enough foot pads on the base. Particularly to the right hand side of the optical assembly. Where the majority of any of your hands weight would be transfered. They put one on the left...but stupidly not on the right. Relying on the two front and rear pads. This would cause the chassis of the mouse to rub on your mousing surface and scuff it. Not so bad if you use a 3M Percise Mousing Surface a fUnc pad or another simmilar "soft" uniform grid surface, but a real PITA if you use an icemat, everglide, ratpad, etc. that can be somewhat abrasive over time. Fortunately logitech fixed that issue by creating half moon shaped PTFE pads front and rear. WHich do a damn fine job of keeping it slippery. And give a little fudge factor without getting stuck ona foot pad standoff should your mouses edge slip off your fragging surface.

Not to mention the best part. The G5 comes in at about $10-$15 (US) cheaper then the Razer at the retail level.

I do have some small gripes with the G5, i dont so much like the new fabric wrapped cord. It just...bugs me. And i think that may be due in part to the fact that the mouse is no longer PS/2 compatible. Ive always prefered to use a PS/2 adapter and crank up the PS/2 rate for smoothness and accuracy. I still feel that im "missing" somthing with the G5 in terms of fluidity, and if i could only just get it to work a PS/2 adapter that maybe it would fix it. But alas, its not meant to be. But i will say, i did feel the same lack of fluidity in the Razer as well. Plus i could do without the "rustic" paint job...i think it looks as ghey as the blue backlit scroll wheel does. But tollerable (i.e. non-visible) in a dark dim monitor lit gaming room.


So, anyway, thats my 2ΒΆ. But considering hte length, is probibly more like 5 to 10. ROFL!
11-04-2005 01:22 PM
madstork91 wow.. honesly i had skipped that picture because it just looked like a pic of the bottom of the mouse... /endignorance]

I wouldnt say I have big hands... more like paws... My palm is literally longer than any of my fingers by a good 1-2 inches, and it literally swallows a mouse. The wheel being so far forward isnt something that makes it bad... Its just something out of the ordinary for me.
11-04-2005 11:22 AM
Greg King Mad,

The picture of the bottom of the mouse on the last page of the review shows the side buttons just about as well as my camera would allow. The scroll wheel is nice for me. I do however have a good size hand. The thumb side buttons are easy to access but the one on the right hand side of the mouse are a pain in the ass.
11-04-2005 10:01 AM
Rob Williams I still *love* the MX518. Drew is currently reviewing the G5, which will be posted next week. Myself, I prefer the 518 over the G5 only because of the feel of the mouse. But for laser/style I'd go with the G5.
11-04-2005 05:10 AM
Blumen Thanks for the link lovin' greg... I think i'll be picking up one of those...

:wub:
11-04-2005 02:52 AM
madstork91 This mouse looks awsome! too bad none of the pictures really give you a feel for the additional buttons layout... As far as over all design it looks sweet, but the editors pictures of it show the mouse wheel to be smaller than what im used to and WAY out front
11-04-2005 01:38 AM
Greg King Rob has the 518 and it has been reviewed here. It pretty much kicks ass.

http://techgage.com/review.php?id=327

There is some link lovin' if I have ever seen link lovin'.
11-04-2005 01:26 AM
Blumen Nice review... anyone tried this and the Logitech gaming mouse? i forget which it is... the 510 or something? I need a new one.. my silicon inserts on gone on this one.

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