Latest Forum Posts

Latest News Posts
Coming Soon!
Social
Go Back   Techgage.com > Hardware > Storage Devices and Memory

Storage Devices and Memory Hard Drives, Optical Drives, Flash and anything memory related can be posted here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-14-2006, 03:50 PM   #1
Overkill0001
Obliviot
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 10
Default Advice on Memory Upgrade

Hi, this is my first post.

I have a dilemma about RAM. Here is my PC:

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ 2.2G
Mainboard: ASUS M2N-E AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570U
Memory: CORSAIR XMS2 (2 x 512MB) DDR2 800

When I want to upgrade memory, what route do you advise I take?

I read that filling all slots will cause it to run in 2T command rate. I was having trouble deciding because I wasn't sure if using 4 sticks would cause it to slow down.

Then I read a post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Williams View Post
If you add 4 sticks of DDR2, you will be using 2T timings. If you are using 2 sticks of DDR2 at DDR2-800 or higher, you will also be forced to use 2T timings.
Is that true?

If so, this would mean I shouln't worry about being forced to 2T anyway because I will be using 2 sticks of DDR2 800 in the first place?

(I can't currently check if my memory is in 1T or 2T because I don't have a graphics card now).

I have been considering either just getting another 2x512MB, for 4x512MB in dual chanel. Or even save up and get 2x1GB for 3GB in dual channel. Or just get a 1GB stick and leave the other open, but not have dual channel.

I'm not sure if I want to go with 4x512MB because in the future 2GB might not be enough. I'm mostly trying to be more futureproof.

Please give me advice on what you would do in my situation.

BTW, it's mostly for games.

Last edited by Overkill0001; 08-14-2006 at 03:57 PM.
Overkill0001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 04:09 PM   #2
Rob Williams
Editor-in-Chief
 
Rob Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 13,347
Default

Welcome to the forums!

The quote from me is true... it's usually how it works. Higher than DDR2-800 with 1T is possible, but you will need much more voltage. At that point though, higher frequencies will offset the loss from 1T.

If you don't want to overclock, which I don't assume you do, then I would recommend 2 * 1GB of PC2-6400 stuff. That will allow you 1T timings without an issue. To be honest though, I've been playing around with AM2 all weekend, and the difference from 1T to 2T seems to be far lower than on 939/940/775.

For an example, when I ran 2T instead of 1T at a specific setting (I think it was DDR2-800), I lost 200MB/s on average in SANDRA. 1T gave me something like 8800/8800... so 200MB/s lower than that is nothing to worry over. At that point, more bandwidth is not going to really make a difference except in benchmarks.

So to be honest, I would just go with 2 * 1GB with 1T. You could try 2 * 1GB + your 512MB * 2, but that would force 2T. You could just test both configurations and decide which you like better. I am willing to bet 2 * 1GB will be the preferred route though.
__________________
Intel Core i7-3960X, GIGABYTE G1.Assassin 2, Kingston 16GB DDR3-2133, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 2GB
Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD (OS, Apps), WD VR 1TB (Games), Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H70 Cooler
Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.11. 3.12 Kernel)

"Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter
<Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.


Rob Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 04:31 PM   #3
Overkill0001
Obliviot
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 10
Default

Thanks for the fast reply! Right, I wasn't planning on overclocking. My motherboard can only go to 1.95V on the memory.

http://www.techreport.com/etc/2005q4...y/index.x?pg=8

According to that, the difference between 1T and 2T is nothing on higher resolutions. Also Sandra seems to exagerate the difference between 1T and 2T.

Also I am confused about you saying I should go with 2 * 1GB with 1T, when earlier you said DDR2 800 forces 2T.
Overkill0001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 04:48 PM   #4
Rob Williams
Editor-in-Chief
 
Rob Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 13,347
Default

Yes, the difference between 1T and 2T in gaming is minimal. If you'd ever notice the difference, it would likely be when you have a lot going on at once, or multimedia production. Or similar.

I am not sure about SANDRAs exagerations, but Everest reports similar figures also. Like I said though, 2T and 1T don't seem to matter -as- much with AM2... at all. The differences are minor, really.

As for the confusion, I didn't word things properly. It will likely depend on the kit, but DDR2-800 1T -is- possible. It's when you go beyond that it becomes increasingly more difficult.
__________________
Intel Core i7-3960X, GIGABYTE G1.Assassin 2, Kingston 16GB DDR3-2133, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 2GB
Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD (OS, Apps), WD VR 1TB (Games), Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H70 Cooler
Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.11. 3.12 Kernel)

"Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter
<Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.


Rob Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 05:06 PM   #5
Overkill0001
Obliviot
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 10
Default

Actually I just read a couple reviews on my RAM where people could NOT get it to run at 1T. So I might as well just fil up all my slots anyway right, since it's probably 2t in the first place.

BTW, I truly appreciate your help.
Overkill0001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2006, 06:08 PM   #6
Rob Williams
Editor-in-Chief
 
Rob Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 13,347
Default

Yes... it seems it's definitely a 'per kit' basis. I have run three kits so far today at DDR2-800 with 1T reliably, with only 1.9v. It's luck more than likely.

If you are not going to be overclocking, there should be no issue with the 3GB of ram, unless you can manage 1T with your 2GB kit.

No problem about the help, it's the reason we have a forum
__________________
Intel Core i7-3960X, GIGABYTE G1.Assassin 2, Kingston 16GB DDR3-2133, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 2GB
Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD (OS, Apps), WD VR 1TB (Games), Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H70 Cooler
Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.11. 3.12 Kernel)

"Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter
<Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.


Rob Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2006, 04:48 AM   #7
Overkill0001
Obliviot
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 10
Default

My RAM defaulted to 2T like I thought. I have yet to try it on 1T. I think I will at least update the BIOS before trying that.
Overkill0001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2006, 11:28 AM   #8
Rob Williams
Editor-in-Chief
 
Rob Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 13,347
Default

Yeah, ram will always default to 2T. It's up to you to enable it. Let me know how you make out with it.
__________________
Intel Core i7-3960X, GIGABYTE G1.Assassin 2, Kingston 16GB DDR3-2133, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 2GB
Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD (OS, Apps), WD VR 1TB (Games), Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H70 Cooler
Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.11. 3.12 Kernel)

"Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter
<Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.


Rob Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2006, 02:39 PM   #9
Overkill0001
Obliviot
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 10
Default

Okay, I set it to 1T. It's fine and stable but I haven't noticed any difference. My 3Dmark06 score went from 4371 to 4365 so it actually dropped an insignificant amount. Where would I be more likely to tell the difference between the 1T and 2T command rate? Game loading times?
Overkill0001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2006, 03:18 PM   #10
Rob Williams
Editor-in-Chief
 
Rob Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 13,347
Default

More likely with game loading times, yes. To see some result, try downloading SANDRA: http://www.sisoftware.net/

Then run the memory bandwidth benchmark, and you will get a buffered result. You -should- notice a difference between 1T and 2T. But like I said, it seems less important on AM2 than it was on 939.
__________________
Intel Core i7-3960X, GIGABYTE G1.Assassin 2, Kingston 16GB DDR3-2133, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 2GB
Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD (OS, Apps), WD VR 1TB (Games), Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H70 Cooler
Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.11. 3.12 Kernel)

"Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter
<Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.


Rob Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2006, 10:05 PM   #11
Overkill0001
Obliviot
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 10
Default

I timed the loading times in HL2, Quake 4, and CounterStrike Source (starting up the game, and loading a saved file [in CSS just loading it up]). I used CPUZ to check and make sure the CR was right after changing the BIOS.

Interestingly, the times were EXACTLY the same. After finding this out, I think I'm not going to worry about filling up all four slots.

Last edited by Overkill0001; 08-18-2006 at 10:40 PM.
Overkill0001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2006, 10:49 PM   #12
Rob Williams
Editor-in-Chief
 
Rob Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 13,347
Default

Well, the thing is on AM2, the bandwidth is -so- good to begin with, that the more you add is going to be useless. People who get 13,000/13,000 in SANDRA... it's just for bragging rights really.

Perhaps with hardcore multimedia you may notice a difference, or games that hog a ton of ram. Still, if you want four slots, go for it

After you do that though, I'd do some quick tests yourself to make sure that it's not taking away from any performance. I haven't had a weird combo like that in my machine, so I haven't tested it out.
__________________
Intel Core i7-3960X, GIGABYTE G1.Assassin 2, Kingston 16GB DDR3-2133, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 2GB
Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD (OS, Apps), WD VR 1TB (Games), Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H70 Cooler
Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.11. 3.12 Kernel)

"Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter
<Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.


Rob Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2006, 06:26 PM   #13
Overkill0001
Obliviot
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 10
Default

I went ahead and tried out Sandra for the heck of it. I don't know exactly what to go by but anyway;

@1T

RAM Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 : 6850 MB/s
RAM Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 : 6841 MB/s

@2T

RAM Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 : 6685 MB/s
RAM Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 : 6651 MB/s

even in Sandra the difference is only 2.5%. In current games and loading times it's zilch. Even in something that really needs ram it seems like I wouldn't actually notice a differece.

I'm glad I looked into this, some people I asked made it seem like going from 1T to 2T would slow it down so much that it would be better to just take out the 2x512MBs and only use 2x1GB. I think just keeping 3GB will be better, in the future that's what apps will need anyway so I might as well get it now. I just hope 2x512MB and 2x1GB will be okay, I have a feeling it will, but to be safe I'm gonna use the exact same brand and timings.

I'll do some 1T vs 2T tests on my Athlon 2800+, Socket A and I bet there will be a bigger difference.
Overkill0001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2006, 06:46 PM   #14
madmat
Soup Nazi
 
madmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: No soup for you!
Posts: 1,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overkill0001 View Post
I timed the loading times in HL2, Quake 4, and CounterStrike Source (starting up the game, and loading a saved file [in CSS just loading it up]). I used CPUZ to check and make sure the CR was right after changing the BIOS.

Interestingly, the times were EXACTLY the same. After finding this out, I think I'm not going to worry about filling up all four slots.
I think you'll find that the stumbling block on load times (once you get past the point that the game is saturating the RAM at any rate) is the CPU and the speed at which it can decompress and load levels, textures and what have you.
__________________

M4N82 Deluxe
Phenom II 940 Black Edition quad core @ 3.5Ghz
2x1 gig OCZ PC26400 Platinum, 2x1gig GSkill PC26400
EVGA GTX260
Buncha drives,
Some other stuff,
Even more stuff,
If the automobile had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside. --Robert X. Cringely, InfoWorld magazine
madmat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2006, 07:05 PM   #15
Rob Williams
Editor-in-Chief
 
Rob Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlantic Canada
Posts: 13,347
Default

Yes, what Matt said. And also, I like I said, AM2 doesn't make much of a difference. 2T is slightly more loose latency wise over 1T... it really depends on what you are doing when you will see a difference. Maybe if you were converting video overnight... 1T may speed it up by 30 minutes. It's hard to say really.



This is a graph using 939... note the differences between 1T and 2T here. This is a platform where you may see differences. AM2 is a wicked platform for having great bandwidth though, so no real need to worry either way.
__________________
Intel Core i7-3960X, GIGABYTE G1.Assassin 2, Kingston 16GB DDR3-2133, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 770 2GB
Kingston HyperX 3K 240GB SSD (OS, Apps), WD VR 1TB (Games), Corsair 1000HX, Corsair H70 Cooler
Corsair 800D, Dell 2408WFP 24", ASUS Xonar Essence STX, Gentoo (KDE 4.11. 3.12 Kernel)

"Take care to get what you like, or you will be forced to like what you get!" - H.P. Baxxter
<Toad772> I don't always drink alcohol, but when I do, I take it too far.


Rob Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Memory for my Asus Maximus Formula OR Upgrade? BoySCouT Motherboards 6 02-04-2014 10:11 PM
Upgrade or not for my Memory system Jemmtin Storage Devices and Memory 2 07-29-2013 05:19 PM
Advice for Memory Upgrade?! Jemmtin General Hardware 2 07-02-2013 04:05 AM
SSD advice Kayden Storage Devices and Memory 7 08-20-2011 07:39 PM
Need A Memory Upgrade? Optix Tech Deals 0 02-01-2011 12:01 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:45 AM.